tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN May 3, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
siness internet provider promise a lot? let's see who delivers more. comcast business gives you gig-speed in more places. the others don't. we offer up to 6 hours of 4g wireless network backup. everyone else, no way. we let calls from any of your devices come from your business number. them, not so much. we let you keep an eye on your business from anywhere. the others? nope! get internet on our gig-speed network and add voice and tv for $34.90 more per month. call or go on line today. hello, i'm erika hill in today for brooke baldwin. the white house briefing is moments away. there are a lot of questions today about the bombshell that we heard last night and this morning from the president's most high profile attorney, rudy giuliani.
and this just in, we're learning more about how much friction there is inside the trump team, specifically friction being generated by former new york mayor rudy giuliani. giuliani now saying the president reimbursed that $130,000 in hush money that was paid out by michael cohen to porn star stormy daniels. since mid january when the story broke, the white house denied president trump knew anything about the payout, which again was made by his personal attorney michael cohen. listen, though, to what giuliani told fox news. >> having something to do with paying some stormy daniels woman 130,000, which is going to turn out to be perfectly legal. that money was not campaign money. sorry, i'm giving you a fact now that you don't know. it's not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> they funneled it through a law firm. >> funneled through a law firm and the president repaid it.
>> oh, he did? >> yes. >> there's no campaign finance law? >> zero. sean, sean, everybody was nervous about this from the very beginning. i wasn't. i knew how much donald trump put into that campaign. i said 130,000, he's going to do a couple of checks for 130,000. when i heard cohen's retainer for 35,000 when he was doing no work for the president, that's how he's repaying it, with a little profit and a little margin for paying taxes for michael. >> did you know the president didn't know about this? >> he didn't know about the specifics of it but he did know about the general arrangement that michael would take care of things like that, like i take care of things like this for my clients. i don't burden them with every single thing that comes along. these are busy people. >> after that revelation came
one of the wordiest tweets the president has ever issued. didn't sound a lot like the president's normal tweets. mr. cohen, an attorney, received a monthly retainer, not from the campaign and having nothing to do with the campaign from which he entered into through reimbursement a private contract between two parties known as a nondisclosure agreement, nda. just a month ago this was what the president had to say when he was asked about it on air force i. >> reporter: do you know about the $130,000 to stormy daniels? then why did michael cohen -- >> you have to ask michael cohen. michael is my attorney and you'll have to ask michael. >> reporter: do you know where he got the money? >> no, i don't know. >> joining me now senior cnn
white house correspondent pamela brown and gloria borger. you've both got new information including details on not what we've heard from rudy giuliani but how this has thrown a wrench into the trump legal team strategy. >> i think it's like throwing a grenade into the legal team strategy. they were surprised. some were angered, some were upset by what they heard rudy giuliani say. my sources are telling me and pamela's sources are telling her that they believe that this was sort of a seat of the pants thing and that it turned into a side show, as one source said. and asked a question why are we doing this? why are we talking about this stormy daniels case right now when we have other things we need to be dealing with with the special counsel? and that rudy giuliani was brought on to, yes, be a part of
the negotiations but also to be the messenger, to talk about how the president is being treated less fairly than hillary clinton was being treated, how bad a guy comey is, for example, how badly the fbi has treated him and on and on. and instead what he'd did was he threw this grenade and kind of blew up the president's and michael cohen's stories about the stormy daniels case. >> but one would imagine that this couldn't have been done without some communication between rudy giuliani and president trump, especially if rudy giuliani was continuing to go on television with this narrative. >> right. and rudy giuliani said that he did coordinate this with the president, that he was fully on board. here's the problem, though. he didn't coordinate it with the president's legal team. and so that is why the legal advisers sort of feel blindsided and were caught flat-footed by
this. as one source i spoke with said why now, they're just getting there to finish this thing, as in the new lawyers, you have emmitt flood now taking over for ty cobb. everyone's trying to get their ducks in a row and now, as gloria said, you have rudy giuliani going out there and essentially throwing a grenade in everything and bringing up the stormy daniels stuff sort of out of nowhere. as one source i spoke to said, look, he was on there too long. the purpose for going on there was for other reasons, including trying to show stability with emmitt flood going on. brought this up sort of on his own and has now put this back in the headlines of with stormy daniels and making it look like the president may have been possibly lying when he said he didn't know about the michael cohen payment, in fact, rudy said he paid michael cohen back. >> so this really shows in a way that it's the president running
his own legal strategy. maybe in concert with rudy giuliani, but actually the president running his own legal strategy because the stormy daniels case, as we know, has been much on his mind. and as one source said to me, look, it's as if this legal team is calling one play at a time without having any overall strategy here and i think that's very reminiscent of the way we see donald trump operate. >> and running not just his own legal team but also his own communication strategy. stay with me. i want to bring in jim acosta who is at the white house. jim, what more are you hearing? >> reporter: well, white house officials here are obviously perplexed, erika. they do not know how this was rolled out. a lot of people feel blindsided over here and dana bash is reporting some of this, it seems as though rudy giuliani coordinated sm ome of the straty
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good idea! get to know geico. and see how easy homeowners and renters insurance can be. as we wait for the white house press briefing to start, where sarah sanders will be asked to clarify who knew what when about the hush money payment to stormy daniels, despite the new version of events being pushed by rudy giuliani and the president, rudy giuliani may have contradicted his own efforts to distance that payment from the campaign. here he is this morning. >> you're saying that stephanie clifford made these allegations, told donald trump's lawyer,
look -- >> denied them. said it wasn't true. however, imagine if that came out on october 15th, 2016 in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. >> so to make it go away -- >> he didn't even ask. cohen made it go away. he did his job. >> joining me now to discuss, david chalian, cnn political director and former ambassador to the czech republic and april ryan, who is also white house correspondent for american urban radio networks. there's a lot to take in here. this whirl wind of contradictions is just the beginning of it. what we just heard it their, david, from rudy giuliani, essentially conferring this was a concern because of the timing. what does that lead us into? >> yeah. i mean, this cuts both ways what he said about james comey last night so he's connecting donald trump to these things that
they're trying to distance him from. on the comey thing, rudy says it actually was about the russia investigation, he wanted to fire comey because he wouldn't clear him publicly and now as you said heard in that sound buy, erikia the stormy daniels payment issue completely tied to the campaign because he talks about it right before the election and the impact on the election. giuliani goes on to say this was all cohen's doing and he took care of it without donald trump's knowledge, but it is completely in the context of aiding the trump campaign, avoiding damage in the days before an election. rudy giuliani just drew a straight line. >> and in terms of that straight line, i'd love it, norm, if you could way in on this. we heard from michael cohen that the trump organization or campaign were not directly or indirectly party to this. but when the payment was still made, the president was still part of the trump organization at that point, still part of the trump campaign at that point.
isn't it fair to say that at least indirectly he was party to what was happening? >> it is fair and of course the telling thing about that statement that it wasn't the trump campaign or trump organization, michael cohen never said it wasn't donald trump who reimbursed him for the payment. look, when rudy went on television last night, he violated the first rule of lawyering. first, do no harm. he did harm to his client and he dug the grave deeper this morning when he said what we all know, that of corse this payment was made to help the campaign. that's the legal test for campaign finance violation, was the purpose of the payment to assist in the election. we all know that it was. so donald trump's situation is a lot worse legally today because of his lawyer's big mouth. >> and also the fact that
apparently, you know, he's there with the blessing of the president, right? we know this. he's not going to be out there continuing to speak on television if the president wasn't okaying it. and, april, we're learning he said he has the president's blessing. is there still a sense at the white house, is the president pleased with what rudy giuliani did? >> i'm going to say this, i know white house senior level staffers are not pleased at all. this is taking them by storm. they were blindsided by this and now they're trying to scramble to figure out. as far as the president, you can just refer to his tweet. but what we understand is that that legal team is very upset. they're trying to figure things out. this is not normal. this is not normal. we have to stop making it as such. you know, when you think -- rudy giuliani said something to the effect that, you know, if i were the lawyer at the time, i would have done that. this is what lawyers do. no, they don't. you can get disbarred for doing something like this. this is not normal.
but once again, the rule of law has been skirted and there are some people in washington today saying that this is leading to a constitutional crisis. and this all stems from improprieties on a presidential level before you go into an elections process to thwart someone's campaign so you can win. we understand she's saying this is being investigated, we're not going to talk. this a little too late. the president was talking on air force one saying he knew nothing about it. who authorized the payment if the president allegedly did not know anything about it. just a few weeks ago sarah sanders said this was in arbitration. it's who you believe in this or where is the truth and that truth could be in mueller's hands following the trail of money.
so this is bigger than just he said/she said. >> you brought up this point. rudy giuliani saying this is just what lawyers do for their clients, the president setting it up as, well, i gave him this money on retainer so it was ready for when he needed it. we're going to tackle that after a short break. stay with us. i landed. i saw my leg did not look right. i was just finishing a ride. i felt this awful pain in my chest. i had a pe blood clot in my lung. i was scared. i had a dvt blood clot. having one really puts you in danger of having another. my doctor and i chose xarelto®. xarelto®. to help keep me protected. xarelto® is a latest-generation blood thinner that's... proven to treat and reduce the risk of dvt or pe blood clots from happening again. in clinical studies, almost 98% of patients on
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giuliani, but the president tweeting about the fact that michael cohen was on a retainer and this is normal for celebs to keep people on a retainer and they can take care of things. could the attorney use a retainer as a way to make payments on a client's behalf. is that really what a retainer is for? >> no. when president trump tweets a statement about the law, you should assume the opposite is true. clients are entitled to benefit from the ethic rules of the profession and one of the cores of those is informed consent. look at the trouble that has been created here by mr. cohen's statement to stormy daniels. that's why the ethics rules require clients to check in. -- rather lawyers to check in with the clients. so, no, you're not supposed to
be doing this. also, giuliani said the monthly repayment was only starting after the election. you have to wonder if he's trying to squeeze a preexisting stream of payments to make this factual narrative fit into them. why would over $400,000 be paid to repay a debt of $130,000? the whole thing doesn't make sense and the shifting stories, that's a betrayal of the duty of honesty. what a terrible mess. and giuliani just made it worse. >> raises even more questions for so many of us. the other thing that's also a shifting narrative after we've heard more from rudy giuliani, david, is what exactly happened when it came to james comey. >> he fired comey because comey would not, among other things, say that he wasn't a target of the investigation. he's entitled to that. hillary clinton got that and he couldn't get that. so he fired him and he said i'm
free of this guy. >> so, david, it's now yet another explanation as for why james comey was fired. >> right. so you remember that lester holt of nbc news asked the president squarely and in that interview about a year ago the president said the russia thing and connected that to the firing of jim comey. he said that the recommendation provided by rod rosenstein and jeff sessions that detail all of james comey's failings handling the hillary clinton situation, he said he was going to fire him irrespective of that investigation. we now have another data point from rudy giuliani about the rational about the president's firing of james comey directly k connected to the russia
investigation. so this was about the russia investigation, it's another data point into the case that robert mueller is trying to make. >> never a dull moment. we'll have much more to discuss as we continue to unpack this. also, just ahead, could three americans be released from north korea today? that's next. because antonio villaraigosa millions got it done.healthcare he defended women's healthcare, banned military-style assault weapons, banned workplace discrimination, and more. antonio for governor.
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honestly agree to you and i fear for the country. >> if they do do ivanka, which i doubt they will, the whole country will turn on them. >> what about his son-in-law? >> he's a fine man. but a fine woman like ivanka, come on. >> oh, there's a lot in there, isn't there? norm ice i don't kneisen is sti. this can be taken a number of ways. is it a message? is it some sort of threat not to talk to ivanka. jared kushner is expendable. that's a whole thing in and of itself. when you listen to that, though, is it also something that could fall into the category of obstruction of justice? >> well, to be honest, when i listened to that particular segment having represented criminal defendants for many, many years, a chill must have gone down jared's spine.
it was a kind of a freudian slip by rudy. he was showing his hand. we've always speculated trump would be willing to sacrifice almost anybody. jared must have thought i'm possibly on the chopping block. and i'll bet his first reaction, just speculating, was what do i have that i can give up on the president to save myself? so the rudy appearance was so undisciplined. and what they're getting in the new lawyer who's coming in, emmitt flood is discipline and precision and care. a single mistake like this, if this, for example, leads to jared now being nervous, it can be catastrophic, and rudy made a boat load of them. i do agree with one thing, however, it is very problematic. if there's one person that the president cares about, it's ivanka. so the special counsel had been
tread very lightly. but knowing bob mueller, if he feels he needs to -- >> i have to cut in here. sarah sanders has just come to the podium. >> the president encourages people of all faiths across the country to join together and pray for our nation. in that same light, president trump extends his thoughts and prayers to the nine victims and their families of yesterday's military plane crash in savannah, georgia. the nine members of the puerto rico national guard who had a combined 167 years of service were on an official mission. the president has been briefed on the incident and will work with the department of defense to provide assistance and resources to the puerto rico national guard. as you all know, president trump's nominee to lead the cia, gina haspell is scheduled to --
she has overseen counterterrorism efforts to protect the homeland. she's one of the most qualified individuals ever nominated to lead the cia. we're seeing widespread support across the intelligence community. people that work the cia and led the cia support her. the chief of staff under president obama called acting director haspel the rare nominee that both parties should love. with planning under way with the summit with north korea and secretary pompeo now engaged from the state department, republicans and democrats should come together and confirm her as the director of the cia. today we also mark world press freedom day. this comes after a recent suicide bombing in afghanistan claiming the lives of at least ten journalists. many journalists around the
globe do their jobs at great risks every day. the united states stands in solidarity with these men and women who work for free and open societies. with that i will take your questions. >> reporter: first, a quick question -- iran would not negotiate or add on -- >> we don't have any announcements at this time. when the president has a final decision on what he will do in terms of the jcpoa, we'll let you know. >> reporter: can you explain why the president when he answered questions to reporters about the $130,000 from michael cohen to stormy daniels why the president was not truthful with the american people? >> as mayor giuliani stated and i'll refer you back to his comment, this was information that the president didn't know at the time but eventually
learned. john. >> reporter: taking a broader view on this, i know you can't talk about the details. can i ask you when the president so often says things that turn out not to be true, when the president of the white house showed what appears to be a blatant disregard for the truth, how are the american people to trust or believe what is said here or what is said by the president? >> we give the very best information that we have at the time. i do that every single day and will continue to do that every day i'm in this position. >> reporter: but the question is when the story first happened, it came out that ty cobb would be leaving and flood would be coming in, the president said fake news, said it was not true. when he talked about the prisoners in north korea, he said the previous administration had been.
>> that allegation -- the allegations, the president has continued to not -- >> whether you were in the dark i think it's a fairly simple question. >> i think it's a fairly simple answer that i've given you several times now. i'm going to continue to do my best to do that every single day. >> can you give us an update on the three americans in north korea? rudy giuliani said they were going to be released today. is that true? >> we can't confirm the validity of any of the reports on their release. we certainly would see this as a sign of goodwill if north korea were to release the three americans ahead of discussions between president trump and kim jong un. >> in addition to being -- in addition to being an attorney for the president, does mayor giuliani have a wider remit to
talk about things like foreign policy? >> not that i'm aware of. >> i want to ask you about reports citing u.s. intelligence that the chinese have installed new missile platforms in the south china sea and now appear to be basing fighter jets there. meanwhile pilots are being warned that chinese military personnel are pointing lights injuring american pilots. does any of this cross a red line for the president and how does the administration intend to respond? >> we're well aware of china's militarization of the south china sea. we've raised concerns directly with the clhinese about this an there will be near-term and long-term consequences and we'll keep you up to date. >> were you caught off guard by mayor giuliani? >> i'm not part of the legal team and wouldn't be part of those discussions. >> so the administration, the
president, is he pleased with the job that mayor giuliani is doing right now? it seems as if he's opened the president up to some sort of criminal liability as it results to federal election campaign violations. >> i haven't discussed that with the president. that wouldn't be part of this conversation. >> so the president is pleased with the job mr. giuliani is doing? >> again, i haven't had that conversation with the president. it's outside counsel, not something i would be a part of. >> reporter: when was the last time the president talked to michael cohen? is michael cohen still his attorney? is the president concerned any conversation he had with him would have been picked up by the wires? >> i'm not sure any conversation took place on the second part. i'm not aware of specific places where he's representing the president and on the last one i would refer you to the
president's outside counsel about any concerns of wire tapping. >> reporter: when did you specifically know that the president repaid mr. cohen for the $130,000? you personally. >> the first awareness i had was during an interview last night. major? >> reporter: you said earlier when you've given answers around this general topic, you used the best information you had at the time. now it appears your position is you're not going to comment because it's ongoing litigation. have you been advised not to wade into this to protect yourself from any legal exposure by giving you false information and not be able to use this in court? >> no, but i would always advise against giving false information. as a person of human decency. >> reporter: with jonathan's question earlier, when you say before you gave the best information you had at the time but it turns out not to be correct or accurate, are you
then trying to limit the liability you may encounter by not dealing with any of those questions and pushing it all off? >> again, i'm giving the best information i have, some information i'm aware of and i'm some i'm not. beyond that i don't have anything to add. >> reporter: he said he being the president, fired comey because comey was not among other things saying he was a target of the investigation. is that the white house position now explaining why james comey was fired? >> there are a number of reasons that james comey was fired. the president has named several of them. but the bottom line is he doesn't have to justify. the president has the ability to fire and hire. every single day we see he's made the right decision in firing james comey. certainly james comey was fired for lying, leaking and
politicizing the fbi and the president has been i think repeatedly day after day been proven to be exactly right in his decision to fire james comey. >> reporter: do you agree with that -- >> >> reporte >> shannon, go ahead. >> reporter: can you clear up the timeline of when did the president learn that the payments were going to michael cohen? >> i would refer you back to mayor giuliani's comments. >> reporter: did the president know mr. giuliani would specifically be talking about these payments to stormy daniels on "hannity" last night? >> i don't know. >> reporter: rudy giuliani has committ commented on the north korean hostages. are they involved directly in
their release? >> not that i know of. >> reporter: why are they commenting on it? >> i don't know. >> reporter: [ inaudible ]. >> again, i'm not sure of the comments on that report or the claims in that report. that's something that you would have to talk with the department of justice and the president's outside counsel. >> reporter: when he learned the reporting that michael cohen's phones were wired? >> i can't verify the validity of that report. >> reporter: how many payments were made -- >> you'd have to ask outside counsel. >> reporter: rudy giuliani said this morning imagine if that came out on october 15th, 2016 in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton, a reference to the payment. so does the white house now acknowledge that that payment was made with politics in mind? >> again, i'm not aware of the
back and forth and i would refer you to president's outside counsel. >> reporter: yesterday the president threatened to get involved in the justice department if memos were not turned over in a finally manner to the house intelligence committee. what actions is the president considering taking and what does a timely manner mean to the president? how soon does he want the un unredacted version of the special counsel -- >> probably yesterday. as the president likes to say, we'll see what happens. >> reporter: would you remind us what the president's position is regarding a potential use of an interrogations tactic -- >> i'm not sure what you're trying to connect. i know that acting director haspel has done everything appropriate under the law and she'll be a great cia director. we look forward to her being confirmed. >> reporter: thank you, sarah. question on russia. this morning the financial times
reported that a former close associate of president putin and a strong advocate of warmer relations with the united states, they will be rejoining his government. this raises another question. you said that the president would have a summit were mr. putin sometime in the near future. can you give us any clues when that will be, has anything been determined on a possible trump/putin summit? >> nothing has been finalized on that front. i think the next big summit, if you will, i'll borrow your word, that the president will engage in will likely be between president trump and kim jong un. beyond that i don't have any update. >> reporter: it's likely there's no meeting with putin but before the putin/trump summit? >> not that i'm aware of but the
president would be very much open to sitting down with the leader of russia. >> reporter: following up on a question, in regard to the memos and congressional oversight, what is the white house's response, they kept calling it extorti extortion. and does the president support the articles of impeachment? >> the president would like to see the request of congress to d.o.j. met. i haven't had a conversation with him about the articles of impeachment. >> reporter: he just said the president was fired for lying. what was he lying about before he was fired? >> there are a number of allegations. one in which he lied during congressional testimony and has been continually i think had a number of contradictions since then, which are ponltinted out t the president said. he has learned every day since
firing comey it was the right thing to do and certainly has been justified in doing so. going back to the president frankly doesn't have to have a justification. he can hire and fire whoever he wants and he made the decision to fire james comey and that certainly is a decision he stands by and one that he feels very justified in since. >> reporter: is giuliani correct in saying he was fired in part because he wouldn't tell the president that he wasn't part of the investigation? >> i can't speak for mayor giuliani? i haven't talked to the president about that. >> reporter: did the president file a fraudulent personal financial disclosure last year when he filed a report that did not include a loan to michael cohen? >> i don't know. you would have to talk to the president's outside counsel. >> reporter: why are you talking about giuliani about the north korean prisoners given that he doesn't have a high-level clearance? >> i'm not aware they spoke about that. i don't know. >> reporter: was he aware that
giuliani was going to be talking about them on tv during negotiations? >> i'm not aware they spoke about it so i can't answer that. >> reporter: does the president believe he's above the law -- >> no. >> reporter: and does he -- >> i'll answer the first question. no. >> reporter: does he prefer to sit down with kim jong un versus bob mueller? >> i certainly think that the president feels like stopping a nuclear war and helping protect the safety and security of people across the globe would certainly be the number one priority of the president of the united states and certainly i would think would be the priority that most americans would share and support the president doing. >> two questions. if you're not ready, if you're not ready. >> i'll come to you next.
>> reporter: at this point can you tell us definitively if the president plans to answer any questions from bob mueller and, if not, what is in place at the white house to go through the process of a subpoena, possible indictment and grand jury? >> those are all questions for the president's outside counsel. >> reporter: did rudy giuliani do harm today to the president in his conversations to fox? >> i don't think so. >> reporter: why didn't he talk to the white house press office about his impacting statement about what was happening? >> the white house press office wouldn't coordinate with the president's outside legal team or legal strategy. >> reporter: you said blindsided -- >> i didn't use that term. >> reporter: well, i said it but you were blindsided by what you said. >> with all due respect, you don't know much about me in terms of what i feel and what i
don't. >> reporter: how does the white house see a meeting with xi jinping affecting their relationship? >> we don't have an official policy but think it always good when other world leaders are getting along. when we can cooperate, that's a good thing. we have a great relationship with both countries and hope to continue to do so. thanks, guys. >> there's a lot to unpack there, isn't there? david chalian, i'm not sure where to begin here. a few things that stuck out from the very beginning. there is this obvious question which we cannot ignore and we've been talking about now since the campaign the fact that the president is continually changing stories and what we're hearing, the quote unquote facts
seem to keep changing. sarah sanders said today i would always advise against giving false information and yet there's a question, david, of how can we trust anything we're hearing when the president has such a blatant disregard for the truth? >> and if the president does, so do the people on his behalf. circle may 3rd where sarah sanders made it so painically clear she has lost credibility with the american people and the reporters in that room. she said that she could only give the best information she has. she was acknowledging she came out and provided incorrect information. the president of the united states comes to that podium and provides incorrect, false, bad information, they have no credibility to continue with that job. i'm not suggesting she's on her way out. i'm sure sarah sanders will stay there because she's pleasing an
audience of one. she has acknowledged she can only go out there with information, the best available. if the best available is false, bad and untrue information, she's failing at her job and i think we saw that time and again in this press briefing today and i think it will go down as the real time that sarah sanders has lost her credibility with the american people. >> let me press you on that for a moment. she said repeatedly i'm giving you the best information i have at the time. is this sarah sanders failing in her job or sarah sanders doing her job? she's giving us the information she has at the time, which then continues to change based on the giver of that information, the president. >> but erika, she's speaking on behalf of the president of the united states. if she can't verify what she's going out with to that podium is truthful, accurate information, she shouldn't be speaking about it at all. that's not the case here. she spoke with bad information because we are now learning it was not truthful when she walked out there in march and delivered
those answers and i thought she was clear in acknowledging that today. >> if you look at -- nia, the question is where do we go from here in terms of information and being able to trust anything? >> go back to day one with sean spicer, right, blatantly going out and telling a falsehood about something really small, right, crowd size. and from what we could tell, he was basically sent out there by the president who was unhappy about the comparisons of his crowd size to obama's crowd size. so this is a book end event. here is sarah sanders who was mocked. this was part of the theme of that media attack, the idea that sarah sanders had a problem with the truth. i think we got plenty of
evidence today and through the past months that she does have a problem being candid. and part of her job there is almost like a reporter. it's almost gigging for as much information as she can get, verifying that information and presenting that information. if she has doubts about that information, then she shouldn't go out there presenting that information as if it's truthful. and that's what she has done. we saw her today go to outside counsel on giving you the best information i can. but it's not the best information if -- >> just to add to what nia is saying there, i think it's on her face and in her words, she's completely changed her approach to all this. it is all now about go to outside counsel, go to outside counsel, i can only give the best information i have at the time. that is a shift because she recognizes that working in that role in this white house under
this level of scrutiny has demolished her credibility. so she's taking a different approach. >> i will say to your point, david, i thought there was definitely a change in her demeanor today. also looking at this from a little perspective, there was a question asked as to whether or not she's referring some of these questions and not speaking about some of them. she's concerned of how she's been advised about her own legal issues. is there anything she should be concerned about from a legal perspective when it comes to the information that she's giving? >> well, there's the court of public opinion credibility that's important for her and the audience that she's before every day and there's the credibility fact that's important say the mueller investigation, anybody who has knowingly provided false information in an attempt to have the investigators thwarted. you can lie to the press but you cannot lie trying to thwart an
investigation or if you are interviewed by the investigators, can you not lie at that point in time. as a prosecutor's point of view, i saw somebody caught flat footed who is saying i only act on what i knew, in a way that she was trying to distance herself of having that accusation against her that she was trying to pro actively lie about a story. she also said that when she learned about the idea that donald trump reimbursed michael cohen, when did she learn about it? like everybody else, watching sean hannity in the interview. that ten-foot pole elongated between her and the white house and to me it said she was on notice that there were contradictions she was walking into, she walked away from and she was trying to salvage perhaps her turn in front of an investigat investigator. >> and the other question about what more do we kn